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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Now, I'm not sure why this is, but I cannot figure out what is causing the AI to slow down from 250 miles per hour to 225 miles per hour at a track where you should not slow down at all! Here's a video demonstration of the bug:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44W7yo93quA

I've tried new AI lines, different INI values and nothing has worked.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Do the front cars slow as well, or just mid-pack back?

It's been years since I played with N2003 AI (tried to tweak Zen Joltis), but...

What is your track_asphalt_grip?
What is your ai_drafting_distance?
What is your ai_dlongpad_scale?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:18 am 
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Is that you running into an ai, or ai to ai contact? I'm assuming it's you.

There's only 2 logical reasons for the ai to react this way,
1) The ai are slowing to conform to the ai_drafting_distance value, or
2) The ai are slowing because they are loose. This is less likely than #1, especially if the surface grip value(s) is above 1.05. However, if the highest tire temp is below 180 this could be a possible factor.

The fix for #1 is to decrease the ai_drafting_distance value which will allow closer nose to tail distances, but this may likely cause problems elsewhere.
You could try increasing the ai_drafting_distance value which will require greater nose to tail distances, but as long as the ai stay in the draft the problem could persist, and the ai race-i-ness may suffer.

A fix for #2 could be:
a) a different fast setup
b) higher track_tire_heat if necessary
c) higher ai_inverse_slipcurve_k, but if the surface grip value(s) is above 1.10 I doubt even a very low slipcurve value will cause a loss of traction on an unrestricted SS.
d) higher minimum ai ratings for track type and chassis (minimum value 65). I don't think this will help the slowing but it does reduce the overall chance of accidents in pack racing.

FWIW
I encountered a similar problem at JGIR. The ai running close together but deep in the draft get out of the throttle just about the start of the pit entrance. Some slow a little, some a lot. Cars a little farther back, which are not closely connected in the draft but yet still at drafting speed, do not always slow down, and they pass those that slow too much. It can't be all grip related because the front cars don't always slow, and it isn't necessarily because they're getting too close because at the high (default) grip levels they don't lift. In practice mode, with smaller groups, the ai don't lift. I couldn't find a workaround or fix for this phenomenon, other than reducing the ai_drafting_distance value, and that was counterproductive everywhere else, and the slowing tends to shuffle the pack and make the competition more interesting.
In the end, it's something you have to be aware of. You have to feather the throttle as you approach this section or you'll run into them.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:03 am 
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Traveller wrote:
Do the front cars slow as well, or just mid-pack back?

It's been years since I played with N2003 AI (tried to tweak Zen Joltis), but...

What is your track_asphalt_grip?
What is your ai_drafting_distance?
What is your ai_dlongpad_scale?

It appears that the cars are just slowing mid-pack back. They tend to spread out and after a few laps and after that they spread out.

Track grip is 1.05.
AI draft a 1.2 car-lengths (nose to nose)
DLongPad Scale is 1000 (the same as Coca-Cola Superspeedway).

fortine_oo wrote:
Is that you running into an ai, or ai to ai contact? I'm assuming it's you.

There's only 2 logical reasons for the ai to react this way,
1) The ai are slowing to conform to the ai_drafting_distance value, or
2) The ai are slowing because they are loose. This is less likely than #1, especially if the surface grip value(s) is above 1.05. However, if the highest tire temp is below 180 this could be a possible factor.

That's me running into the AI. Several times I've tried to go around them, and every time it's ended up in a multi-car pile-up. Grip is 1.05.

1 - Drafting Distance is 1.2 car-lengths (nose to nose).
2 - Well, I believe that they are using my original fast setup, which got me loose in the draft after reducing the AI drag. But that was off of turn 4, not the entrance to turn 3. The AI also seem to slow in the quad-oval and the entrance to turn 1.

Quote:
The fix for #1 is to decrease the ai_drafting_distance value which will allow closer nose to tail distances, but this may likely cause problems elsewhere.
You could try increasing the ai_drafting_distance value which will require greater nose to tail distances, but as long as the ai stay in the draft the problem could persist, and the ai race-i-ness may suffer.

I may reduce the drafting distance slightly.

Quote:
A fix for #2 could be:
a) a different fast setup
b) higher track_tire_heat if necessary
c) higher ai_inverse_slipcurve_k, but if the surface grip value(s) is above 1.10 I doubt even a very low slipcurve value will cause a loss of traction on an unrestricted SS.
d) higher minimum ai ratings for track type and chassis (minimum value 65). I don't think this will help the slowing but it does reduce the overall chance of accidents in pack racing.

(a) I'm considering it. My setup is faster than what the AI currently has.
(b) I'll try that somewhat later.
(c) Inverse Slipcurve is below 0.6. But even above 1.0 it doesn't seem to make any difference.
(d) Isn't that done in the car files?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Quote:
DLongPad Scale is 1000 (the same as Coca-Cola Superspeedway).


I would reduce ai_dlongpad_scale. I only use 0.3; a higher value can cause ai to check up unnecessarily, a lower value doesn't reduce any affect. I've never had positive results using ai_dlongpad_scale to get rid of unwanted ai behavior.
That said, because it's an unrestricted SS, I don't expect you'll see any difference.


Based on my experience with JGIR, I'll be surprised if you can eliminate this slowing (and still maintain ai raceability).
You could try increasing ai_squeeze_pcnt, but the last thing you need when there's pack racing is drivers jumping out of line willy-nilly.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:48 pm 
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The last-- read most recent-- track.ini I have for Zen Joltis unrestricted has asphalt grip at 1.25, drafting distance at 1.375 and dlat_pad at 1.5. The dlat may have something to do with the AI lines I made. I have a pace distance of 1.75. I know the pack would stay together then break up then come together again. At the time it reminded me of a rubber band being stretched and relaxed. I documented what I was working on at the old RSC forums and the thoughts behind the changes. But that place is long gone.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Okay, I gave the AI my faster, and tighter, setup. They have gained 10 of their 30 mph in turn 3. But I've discovered another trouble spot. Turn 4. They slow down just as much off of turn 4 as they used to do in turn 3. And now I've discovered that turn 1 seems to crowed-in the AI, though I don't know why since the track width is uniform throughout with the exception of the extra safer barrier in the turns. The other values don't seem to be having an effect. Maybe I should adjust my minrace and maxrace LPs. I have the race and raceline LPs treat the track like a normal speedway. Outside line on straights, inside line in corners, and out-in-out-in-out in the quad-oval. Maybe I should modify the minrace and maxrace LPs to match.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:24 am 
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They have gained 10 of their 30 mph in turn 3.

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