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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:56 am 
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This was posted on another thread, but I re-titled it and reposed it so people could point to it easily.  Be aware that you still may need to adjust the settings per track, but these should get you fairly close.

Performance Characteristics of GN1970 (vs modern cars)

Less grip (85%?)
Tire gets hotter (110%)
Tires do not last as long  (70% of radial?)
Less fall off over time (more consistent wear)

Notes:  Be aware, with the older, heavier cars working with less grip, you should be needing to use the throttle to turn the car more, especially on short tracks.  On larger, banked ovals, it should not be too surprising to move the groove up quite a bit, as the cars just would not stick in the low lane.  It may be prudent to reverse the max-min lp files (as we did in N@50) to allow the AI to try that, but that was a few releases ago, not sure if it will work in N2003.

Here are the tutorials for those who are not aware of how to manipulate track.ini files:
http://www.thepits.us/files/tutorials/t ... k_ini1.pdf
http://www.thepits.us/files/tutorials/t ... k_ini2.pdf

One other note. Pit road speeds were unlimited in those days, so you will need to set that up to be accurate.

Final Settings for GN1970 tracks.  May need to be adjusted slightly per track, but this should be a good starting point.

Superspeedways (Daytona)
[ track_cts ]
track_tire_heat = 1.35                          ; > modifies amount of heat going into the tire at a given track
track_tire_wear = 2.2                          ; > 1.0 means more wear, i.e. 2.0 is twice normal wear, 0.5 is half normal wear
track_tire_wear_loss = 0.35                     ; percentage of grip lost at full tire wear
track_tire_wear_exp = 1.55                      ; > 1.0 gives a bigger fall off later in run < 1.0 gives a bigger fall off early in run
track_asphalt_grip = 1.042                      ; > 1.0 means more grip.  This shouldn't have to change by more than +- 0.05
track_concrete_grip = 1.089                      ; > means more grip.  Again, keep between about 0.9 and 1.05

Speedways (Atlanta)
[ track_cts ]
track_tire_heat = 1.09                          ; > modifies amount of heat going into the tire at a given track
track_tire_wear = 2.2                           ; > 1.0 means more wear, i.e. 2.0 is twice normal wear, 0.5 is half normal wear
track_tire_wear_loss = 0.35                     ; percentage of grip lost at full tire wear
track_tire_wear_exp = 1.55                      ; > 1.0 gives a bigger fall off later in run < 1.0 gives a bigger fall off early in run
track_asphalt_grip = 0.9                        ; > 1.0 means more grip.  This shouldn't have to change by more than +- 0.05
track_concrete_grip = 0.92                      ; > means more grip.  Again, keep between about 0.9 and 1.05

Short tracks (Richmond Fairgrounds)
[ track_cts ]
track_tire_heat = 1.35                          ; > modifies amount of heat going into the tire at a given track
track_tire_wear = 2.2                          ; > 1.0 means more wear, i.e. 2.0 is twice normal wear, 0.5 is half normal wear
track_tire_wear_loss = 0.35                     ; percentage of grip lost at full tire wear
track_tire_wear_exp = 1.55                      ; > 1.0 gives a bigger fall off later in run < 1.0 gives a bigger fall off early in run
track_asphalt_grip = 0.975                      ; > 1.0 means more grip.  This shouldn't have to change by more than +- 0.05
track_concrete_grip = 1.00                      ; > means more grip.  Again, keep between about 0.9 and 1.05

Road courses (Riverside)
[ track_cts ]
track_tire_heat = 1.20                          ; > modifies amount of heat going into the tire at a given track
track_tire_wear = 1.55                          ; > 1.0 means more wear, i.e. 2.0 is twice normal wear, 0.5 is half normal wear
track_tire_wear_loss = 0.35                     ; percentage of grip lost at full tire wear
track_tire_wear_exp = 1.55                      ; > 1.0 gives a bigger fall off later in run < 1.0 gives a bigger fall off early in run
track_asphalt_grip = 0.947                      ; > 1.0 means more grip.  This shouldn't have to change by more than +- 0.05
track_concrete_grip = 0.99                      ; > means more grip.  Again, keep between about 0.9 and 1.05


Cheers!

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Last edited by Jan Kohl on Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:39 pm 
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Dumb question surely Jan, but does it have to be changed in the .ini's of modified tracks, just like the ones from Wrangler and Rioux on the Pits website ? Or is it already done ? :?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:24 am 
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I think most of the tracks need to be changed. However, we testing these settings online and everyone agreed that these settings replicated what we were trying to get to with GN1970...

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:40 am 
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and thanks again 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:58 am 
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I can tell you for sure that Bristol 1970 and Charlotte 1970 DON'T need changed, they drive much different than their present day counterparts. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:23 pm 
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now will the ai slow down with these grip settings? or do i have to edit the "[ ai_track_cts ]" settings as well?

edit:got the ai running realistic times,now gotta slow myself down.working on michigan 1970.....

edit #2:chassis type 5 slowed me down.got both the ai and myself around 160-161 mph......

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:36 pm 
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Chassis 5 seems to have the car act like it weighs twice as much as it should.

I'd suggest 5 for Michigan - 0 could be a possiblility since you can slide easier, but then the AI cars turn on the nitrous! :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:02 pm 
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how many laps should tires be lasting here? here being michigan

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:52 am 
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Traction loss might be better being lower. Being that the traction is already lower, having a high loss means you're running around at .7475 traction while the stock Daytona only drops to .80 at full wear (.20 loss from 1.00).

I've read that bias ply tires didn't drop off as much so lowering the grip and raising the drop off makes the drop off more dramatic.

I've discovered in testing that higher traction results in less wear. Something the game does which doesn't make sense is when tires are gripping (more friction), they don't wear, but when they slide (less friction) they wear.

So using lower traction (more sliding) with higher wear makes them wear out really soon. And, since the fall off is greater (later) as well as the traction loss, this all comes together to make the tires lose more grip when they go away, and since the fall off is later, they won't go away gradually, but all at once. You can run 20 laps at Daytona, pit for fuel and no tires (because the tires have hardly worn by 20 laps), then by lap 25, the tires are go, slipping and sliding with a traction number around .80 because the loss number is so high. End result is eating a lot of wall.

I suggest making the loss (.20) and fall off number (1.20) lower to accompany the lower traction and higher heat to get them to go away a little sooner but not as much all at once.

I know, Jan, that you have tested the numbers above. I have been testing them too and this is what I've found so I'm sharing it. I'm certainly not saying I'm right or anybody else is wrong, it's just what I've found.

Heat looks good, as does wear. Traction is great as well. But for the tires to fall off later (1.55) and lose 35% grip, I think those numbers need to come down to make people slow but not spin after a bit.

Just suggestions! :D

According to the NL Michigan.txt, pit window was 26 to 30 laps. Whether or not people can run the insides 60 laps, I don't know but I think making them run okay for 30 laps or so would be good.

Again, I'm just adding my 5 cents here.

ZM


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:01 pm 
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Is the maximum pit road speed for the player 70mph?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:44 pm 
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jonhpr wrote:
Is the maximum pit road speed for the player 70mph?



No it isn't, but it seems to be a good choice for most tracks, because the AI are slow enough not to run over you while your entering or exiting your stall.

If somebody can make it faster and get away with it. That's fine.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:39 pm 
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Thats the strange part.I edited the .ini to say 125mph,the ai does fine once I edited the lp files,but in a race I hit pit road and got black flagged,and I was under 125mph...... and they exit pit road at 125mph,then when they get to the apron in t1 they slow way down.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:00 am 
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Make sure you are editing the pit road speed and not the pace speed if you want the pit road speed to be 125.

for example:

; race control stuff
lane_on_right = 0 ; 0 if on left, 1 if on right
lane_has_wall = 1 ; 0 no wall, 1 has wall
speed_limit_MPH = 125.0

The spotter will still say "70" is the limit because the game didn't include anything over 70 when they made it (somebody will probably make a 'go like heck' spotter some day).

At www.delta-simracing.com, we run with the 125 speed limit at most tracks and haven't had a problem with it. I'm looking at raising it to 150 or even 200 at the really big tracks. Test it offline to see how the pace car reacts. At a few tracks, the high pit road speed makes the pace car eat the pit road wall so it'll need to be adjusted. BUT, we race online and not offline so these settings may make the AI cars do weird things so make sure to test um before trying them.

Thx the ThePits for the GN1970 mod!!! It's made our racing much more exciting and has brought back many of the NL crowd that I haven't seen in years!!! :D

Thx for racing!
ZM


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:44 am 
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A BIG thank you to TheUSPits for the 1970 mod!!!

Another big thank you for ALL the track makers! The work and detail you've put into making these tracks is outstanding!!

Over the past 5 months or so, the Delta Sim Cup (Wednesdays via www.delta-simracing.com) has been running the 1970 schedule and this is what we've discovered running, mostly, the 1970 settings Jan posted up top here.

Most '1970' tracks as they come are WAY too fast and need the track.ini edited with theUSPits numbers and/or the chassis changed to 5. I know the track makers have worked hard to create these tracks and commend you for all the work and detail you've put into the tracks. Thank you all so much for these tracks. They've made running the 1970 schedule in the 1970 mod so much more exciting! Another BIG thank you for theUSPits for creating the mod. Us old folks dig the heck outta this mod and the tracks that take us 'back in the day'!! ;-D

We've run a race or 2 over 1/3 of the 1970 schedule and it's been really fun running with '1970' type settings. In some cases, things needed changing but for the most part, using theUSPits traction and raising the pit road speed limit has been enough. You have to drive the car more carefully which makes you think twice about that pass you might attempt... The cars push!! When was the last time your N03 car pushed?!?! lol ;-)

I've seen quite a few '1970' tracks released where the lap times are not even close to 1970 times (unless I'm just really fast which I'm not) and the cars stick like glue... Check out the track list at Racing Reference and check out the track records. Then hop into your 1970 car with your best qual setup and see how close you are to the 1970 time. At most '1970' tracks, you'll end up going maybe 10 to 20 mph faster! I know YOU may be that fast, but Cale and Bobby weren't slow..! lol

What I've found besides using theUSPits grip/wear settings:

Chassis 5 sure makes the car feel like a 3900# stock car on bias ply tires. It's slow to accelerate, but when up to speed it's hard to get stopped and you need to let off into the corners and let momentum carry you through until you get on it hard in the middle to get the rear to come around. Atlanta_70 with chassis 5 will put you within 1% of the 1970 record. Try it! Charl_70 and Michigan_70 already use chassis 5 and the speeds are almost dead on.
Martinsville with chassis 5 will get you going around the same speed as 1970.
Riverside with chassis 5 and the grip around 1.11 works well.

Chassis 3 at the short tracks with lowered traction, gives a slick feel those cars without wings may have experienced. 0.92 at Thompson worked well.

Chassis 0 is fun at dirt tracks. Try NC_Fair with 1.50 dirt grip or Illinois with 1.25 dirt grip.

Chassis 2 @ at the big tracks with traction at 0.84 wasn't enough to slow it down enough to 1970 speeds without the car being about impossible to drive.

Chassis 4 (road course) settings seem work well, although still a bit too fast. Once the traction is low enough to slow down to 1970 speeds, it's about impossible to drive.

Great job and thx to all for doing their best to recreate 1970 racing.

ZM


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